1) “There is often the misconception that bullet size is directly relative to “stopping power”. So before we discuss the 9mm vs. .40 caliber in terms of wound ballistics, let's define the concept of "stopping power." To adequately understand the efficiency of incapacitating a target, we must have some basic understanding of the mechanics of wounding – how damage to the human body works. But one cartridge stood out to the FBI above the rest. The much discussed “shock” of bullet impact is a fable and “knock down” power is a myth.”. I will be talking about what needs to happen to the human body for it to be stopped and no longer a threat. When you look at an exit wound made by various bullets, you find that is not that easy to determine what caliber did the damage. Exit wounds made by .45, 44, .357, .38, and 9mm rounds pretty much look the same. What does that mean? Don’t forget to share this post, follow our blog, and like our Facebook page for more great content! A .38-caliber (9-mm) bullet can produce a hole having the diameter of a .32 caliber (7.65-mm) bullet and vice versa. Not all of these guns are identical between their 9mm version and their .45 ACP version. // ]]> Now we had a few interesting responses regarding what caliber people prefer and I agree with the majority of them, or at very least can see the point of the person responding. Ergo, the bigger the bullet, the bigger the permanent wound cavity. Skin is elastic and has compensatory mechanisms to limit bleeding. People have walked off from head shot wounds from the venerable .45, .38 mag, etc. So you need to shoot center of mass until the target takes a pause to realize, “I just got shot!” Then put one in the noodle. The size of the hole is due not only to the diameter of the bullet but also to the elasticity of the skin and the location of the wound. Until you hit Roy Weatherby velocities, small bullets are just that: small bullets. In this test, we are looking at the impact on raw bone. I’m purposely trying to avoid the temporary versus permanent wound cavity issue here as it is a bit of a moot point when talking handgun rounds. I gather that the 9mm 147 grain hard cast is a good penetrator. And no, I won’t be talking about 9mm vs. .45 vs. whatever. Use of Force – Home Defense – Concealed Carry, END THE DEBATE: 9mm versus 45 ACP versus whatever…, Use of Force / Home Defense / Concealed Carry – 2/20 1PM. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. There is only one way that a single round is going to stop a threat every time: hitting someone in the ocular cranial cavity (technical term for face) inducing instantaneous de-animation (technical term for turning out someone’s lights). Dr. Sydney Vail is a trauma surgeon and one of the nation's leading authorities on tactical medicine and the care of gunshot victims. A 9mm is generally cheaper, has less recoil and higher velocity than a .45 ACP. Take it for what it’s worth. He works in a morgue so these are all deaths. The 9mm vs. .45 ACP debate isn't so much about velocity and diameter as it is boring scientific data versus myth and legend. 4: Never Forget the Fundamentals of Gun Safety. People have died from .22 LR in one shot. My personal preference goes to the 45 as years of carrying one on duty and thousands of rounds in training have made me very comfortable with the caliber. The .45, for instance, is slightly slower than the 9mm, but features a more massive projectile, with 250 grains of mass compared to the 9mm’s typical 115 grains. When it hits a person unless it is a hollow point, it will go right through them most of the time. You could also get hit by a bus. If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics suck. The 9mm. That’s what I call a win. He's never treated anyone who could survive a 10mm lol Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire Would there even be anything left? The FBI went back the 9mm to accomodate an anticipated increased enrollment for lady field agents that the Obama administration wanted, pure and simple! Threats are stopped by three things: disrupting the Central Nervous System, causing massive blood loss/permanent tissue disruption, or denying mobility (taking the legs out from underneath the threat). Remember that little bit about bleeding out? Would I like more, yup. Bullet design is far more important than foot/pounds of energy. All bullets have the potential to stop an aggressor, whether or not they do it effectively is the crux of the argument. Entrance Vs Exit Gunshot Wounds: Here are some of the common differences between entry and exit wounds: 1. On the other hand, opponents of the 9mm will be quick to point out some disadvantages. [CDATA[ Découvrez comment nous utilisons vos informations dans notre Politique relative à la vie privée et notre Politique relative aux cookies. Help me out here. Once again, there is no magic bullet and a 9mm… hell even a .22 is better than no gun in hand when involved in a lethal force situation. The exit wound was in the right aspect of his occiput (the back of his head) and was about the size of a lemon. 2. Nothing is guaranteed so shoot to stop. So, with regard to the specific question of "what kind of wound is likely to be caused if someone is shot in the upper arm or shoulder with a .45 ACP FMJ," it would most likely be a through and through with a fairly unremarkable exit wound. Kinetic energy is not a wounding mechanism, it is POTENTIAL that is all. Shot placement and number of holes is more important than caliber. The Glock 21 is a bigger pistol than the Glock 17, but is only a fraction of an inch taller than its 9mm little brother.Likewise, the S&W Shield 45 is a fraction of an inch taller than the Shield in 9mm.The other pistols are dimensionally identical between 9mm and .45 ACP. .45 ACP vs 9mm comparison. Always train and seek to improve. I believe the definition of stopping power for law enforcement should be a particular ammunition's effectiveness to render a person unable to offer resistance or remain a threat to the officer, an intended victim, or self. Uhh no the .40 and .45 clearly had MUCH bigger wound cavities. 2) “Kinetic energy does not wound. The most common gunshot wounds DM2 sees are from .380 and 9mm. Excluding variables such as bullet deflection off of bone/clothing/etc, there appears to be a greater level of effectiveness within the desired space. I’ve fought with broken ribs. I just have to comment, to set the record straight. There are a lot of things that are hard to get your noodle around in terminal balistics, but they are important nonetheless. More misinformation about the 9mm vs 45. 9mm vs. the 45. Nos partenaires et nous-mêmes stockerons et/ou utiliserons des informations concernant votre appareil, par l’intermédiaire de cookies et de technologies similaires, afin d’afficher des annonces et des contenus personnalisés, de mesurer les audiences et les contenus, d’obtenir des informations sur les audiences et à des fins de développement de produit. These studies examined wounds made from the same relatively ineffective rounds used by the FBI and other agencies in the past. 9mm vs. .45 - a doctor's view of gunshot wounds Discussion in 'The ... 45. There will always be those that disagree, but the fact still remains that the FBI threw away 40 years on their 10 mm project starting back in 1968 to replace the deficient 9 mm! Getting shot with anything sucks. How much depends on a lot of factors that can’t be figured out by shooting blocks of gelatin or playing with ballistic tables on a computer. If an attacker is motivated enough and/or chemically impaired, even multiple rounds can be ineffective at immediately stopping the threat. I am also referring to the one shot one kill mindset. But that’s just my opinion. Rob is co-owner of Tactical Dynamics Firearms Training and is a USMC veteran and active Law Enforcement Officer. 3. Don’t take my word for it though. (Insert Zombieland references here), That being said, logic also dictates that in areas where the powers that be have restricted our freedoms to ten rounds or less, bring the bullet that will have the greatest ballistic effect on the target. Temporary cavity does not wound. Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Philip Marlowe, Apr 22, ... dropped it in one shot, then butchered it and looked at the entry, exit and wound channel. Add in a spare magazine and we have 21 total rounds on board. Vous pouvez modifier vos choix à tout moment dans vos paramètres de vie privée. Unless you through simple logic out the window, the 45 … Shots into the thoracic cavity are intended to have the effect of disrupting the major organs in such a way that the body simply stops functioning due to blood loss and failing circulation and/respiration. The 9mm FMJ round subsequently center punched the shaft of his penis at about its midpoint leaving it unnaturally angulated. If they were wrong then, they’re probably wrong now, along with the fact that there is’nt much collateral support for their recent change of heart! A key point in choosing self-defense ammo is its ability to quickly neutralize a threat. So don’t get caught in a fair fight. Pour autoriser Verizon Media et nos partenaires à traiter vos données personnelles, sélectionnez 'J'accepte' ou 'Gérer les paramètres' pour obtenir plus d’informations et pour gérer vos choix. Coroners will tell you that only .40 and .45 have one shot kills only because the 9mm most bad guys use are FMJ. But a good JHP 9mm will punch through bone. Agree then why not move to the 5.7×28 if we are going to talk less recoil higher cap weapons and also it will go through a vest. Yahoo fait partie de Verizon Media. 2. People like the OP of the TIFU have been shot right above their heart and lungs, with .223 and despite a nasty, nasty exit wound and the shot placement, walked it off. The .45 ACP, .40 S&W or 9mm are the most commonly argued for calibers. Physical requirements and qualifying with a fire arm are the ladies two biggest obstacles to overcome in the military as well as in the FBI! The thing I look for in a bullet is the ability to go through a rib. I am a combat veteran and I have used both 9mm and 45 caliber on the enemy. The .45 ACP had an ever so slight advantage when it came to wound channel. “If you notice in the above photo, there is little difference between 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP in regards to both temporary and permanent wound cavities,”. .45 ACP ammo; 10mm Auto ammo.357 Magnum ammo.38 Special ammo; 9mm ammo; Effectiveness of Bullet Wounds: How Gunshot Wounds Work. In simple terms, more stuff got messed up by the round as it passed through. Rob is a Sig Sauer Master Rated Firearms Instructor and holds several other ratings from various institutions. Would like to see a ballistic Gelatin penetration test with the Buffalo Bore 45ACP 255 grain hard cast. A radiologist states that while handgun bullet wounds are often survivable, exit wounds from AR-15 rifle bullets can sometimes be the size of an orange. This is laughable, where are you getting this bullshit…from a Steven Seagal movie?! And stop the madness when it comes to which bullet is better. The edge does go slightly in favor the the 45 as we see that there was quite of bit of tissue disruption within the initial 6 inches of penetration into the ballistic gelatin. Guess which ones…. One thing kind of stuck in my mind as something that needed to be addressed and that is this notion of kinetic energy being the cause of threat stoppage post bullet strikes. The .357 is better than the .45 but a 9mm with similar properties as the .357 is much worse? 1. There are four major handgun founding factors. (Conversely, it is very easy to tell a rifle or shotgun wound from a handgun wound.) 9mm vs. .45 - but different! Situations don’t always allow for it but my bailout bag has another 2 mags in conjunction with some Active Shooter Response equipment. It has been claimed that the 9mm, at least in FMJ form, is lacking in overall stopping power and delivers less energy and wound size than .45 ACP does..45 ACP. Don’t get me wrong, enough combat effective hits on a target will stop the threat sooner than later, but nothing should be considered to be absolute. The .45 ACP is probably a bit better in terms of a larger wound cavity if no barrier is involved. I have a pretty good idea what the effectiveness of a missed or less than optimally placed shot is. In .45 ACP vs 9mm, is the .45 still the top self-defense choice? Actually WW2 showed that the 9mm was better than the .45: From an analysis of these facts and the requirements for penetration of skin and bone, it can be readily appreciated that the .45 caliber bullet is of little value as a wound-producing agent except in the softer tissues and at near ranges. Bring a reload or three. You have to put a realistic bone in the way to see if it bounces off. 2. Obtain your Massachusetts license to carry in 2021. Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. There is often the misconception that bullet size is directly relative to “stopping power” in reference to the caliber’s ability to stop a threat. My hand is up). The critical element is penetration. The key has and always will be what happens with bone. …then why not the .380? Exit Wound From A 45 Gunshot Wounds 8 Real Life Cases On The Receiving End Of Gunfire ... 47 Best Ballistics And Gunshot Wounds Images In 2018 Forensics 9mm Vs 40 Caliber Weapons Police Magazine ... Glock 9mm Bullet Vs 9mm Hollow Point Into Pumkin Entrance Exit Holes The simple fact is, a projectile passing through or into a body will “wound” and there will be bleeding. Today’s 9MM self-defense rounds are better than full-metal jacket and hollow-point rounds used by law enforcement 30 and 40 years ago. I think you are missing the point that ALL deaths caused by gunshot wounds DID stop the attacker. Our round table of military, law enforcement and other industry experts answers the age-old debate between .45 ACP and 9mm ammo. Size: If there is firm contact, entrance wound might be larger otherwise entry would is always smaller. Very interesting video - not sure if it was posted before. So, my solution to the whole 9mm vs 40 S&W vs 45 ACP debate was to carry a 9mm because it’s what I shoot the best. BUT if the bullet won’t go through a rib, it’s not likely to hit the heart or lungs. It's a matter of time till death(or incapacitation as it … Informations sur votre appareil et sur votre connexion Internet, y compris votre adresse IP, Navigation et recherche lors de l’utilisation des sites Web et applications Verizon Media. Temporary cavity does not wound. If the bullet goes through the body's squishy parts, not hitting any bone, the resulting exit wound can be quite large. Pistols are used at close range to no range.

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